When the World Is on Fire | She Chose to Rise: The Podcast

War is often told through headlines and history books — but behind every conflict is a human story. In this episode of She Chose to Rise: The Podcast, host Mariatu Esther Kabba speaks with Olga from Ukraine about navigating fear, displacement, and uncertainty while holding onto hope and identity. Through an intimate conversation and reflections from her chapter in the anthology, Olga shares what resilience looks like when survival becomes a daily choice, reminding us that even in the darkest moments, choosing yourself is an act of quiet courage.

Hosted by Mariatu Esther Kabba | A Global Rise & Soar Production
Produced in partnership with Engage Salone

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When we think about war, we often think in headlines, numbers, names. We struggle to pronounce. But war is not abstract. It's life inside kitchens, bathrooms, um, classrooms, you name it. It's at a quiet moment when someone realizes that the life they knew may never return. Olga is from Ukraine, and when the world began watching her country born, she was living inside a reality most of us only encountered from screens. I am Mariatu, and this is She Choose to Rise, a global storytelling and annual book project. A global rise and so production in partnership with Engage Saloon. About what it means to keep choosing yourself when you know the ground beneath you will never stay still. This is a story about survival, not as a concept, but as a daily decision, about dignity, about memory, about what it takes to remain human when everything familiar is stripped away. This is Olga's story, and this is why it matters now.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Hi, uh Mariato, thank you for having me. I'm Olga, I'm from Ukraine. I I was a media manager and researcher in Ukraine. Uh, I worked for the legal practice publishing house, and my main uh focus area was legal research and rankings of law firms and legal practitioners in Ukraine. But right now I decided to refocus a little bit. Right now I'm working on my individual project which is uh dedicated to the prospects of Ukraine's reconstruction, reconstruction which is ongoing and which I hope uh we have uh after the war and better to say after Ukraine's victory in this aggressive war. Um so yes, there it's me. And another another function I have here, it's my it's my I would call it like my mission here, it's uh debunking Russian narratives, which I hear here unfortunately a lot.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

How would you describe that environment that you really grew up in as a girl?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Uh yeah, I I was born and raised in Ukraine. At the time it was uh a part of the Soviet Union, but then Ukraine in 1991 got its independence. So I uh spent pretty happy childhood, I would say, when my parents told me the importance of education and responsibility. From the early age, I understood what is uh disciplines. So uh during my school time at my uh uh university uh years, I learned a lot. Uh I uh understand that for me it was very important to learn how to think critically, and uh what is also very useful right now, how to adapt to different situations. So, but uh you know that 90s in uh post-Soviet republics and Ukraine was not an exception, it was very unstable times, so probably instability was never an abstract word for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah. Um the way the world is, when you mention Ukraine, the first thing that comes to mind is war, right? But there was life before war. Yeah, it was a good life, right? Yeah. So do you want to describe, I mean, your life personally, before the war in Ukraine, what did normal look like for you back then or for family?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, actually, we call it we use the term normality because of the movie, we call it period. My life was pretty good. Uh I was quite ambitious. I think I was like forward-thinking, I was um very exposed to have uh short and long-term plans for my future. But uh uh, you know, with this disruption that happened, unfortunately, right now we're not only me, it's not only about me, but uh maybe for all Ukrainians, we should live in so uh so-called short circles because you you you can't plan anything. Uh Russians they uh attacking us every single day and night, and especially at night. It's it's it's it's very difficult to understand to predict if you wake up tomorrow or not. That's why it it's something that shaped our mindset uh during these almost four years of full-scale invasion and uh much more years than since the annexation of Crimea of this war with Russia. So uh I would describe my life before as a hardworking experience, but uh I really thought that all my attempts and my hardworking, uh my dedication to what I've been doing could uh guarantee me a stable future. Right now I realize that nothing in this world is guaranteed.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Nothing in this world is guaranteed, yeah. Things happen for us to learn the lessons. I mean, it's good it's but the lessons, you know, left some good way of thinking, you know, to make things.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

I I would also add that uh we were not restricted in traveling, for example. We had a visa-free regime with the European Union, so it was quite common at the time uh to spend your weekends somewhere in Europe, uh in one of wonderful European capitals, or or to uh spend it in Ukraine, doesn't really matter, and right now we don't even have civil aviation, only military aviation. So life has changed a lot.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Right. Well, if you're listening to Russ um and you're hearing some movements in the background, just so you know, we are out in the streets of Phoenix, and uh we're having some good time while talking through and explaining about how Olga chose to rise even amidst challenges, you know, societal challenges, and how um you redefined what normal means, you know. So, yeah. Um, we decided to come outside to get fresh air and to normalize things. All right, Olga. So um uh what were you most proud of or you know, hopeful for hopeful about in that chapter of your life before the war?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Well, uh I was very dedicated to uh the job I was doing. Uh I was um as I as I told I was a chief editor head of the research of Ukrainian uh publications for lawyers, and I uh did that with great uh passion. Uh it was a very meaningful project for the whole Ukrainian legal community, and I felt that feedback uh it for decades actually it shaped some standards of communication on the Ukrainian legal market, and for me it was very important to bring that very uh I think how to say it um to bring some to bring some impact and to to uh help Ukrainian law firms to develop uh to uh make proper decisions, to uh motivate lawyers to empower them and to create different policies. So I was I was really very proud of what I was doing, and I hope that even in my absence, uh there is a very good person who is going to be the chief editor instead of me. I'm going to announce him actually next week. Um so that's probably uh I I think I think in terms of professional life it was my great achievement and great passion. Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So when did it strike? Like when did it um come down on you like things we are no longer the same?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Well, you know, I I should say that it did it it didn't happen like uh in one moment. It it it's it's a very gradual process, and uh all these transformations uh are usually um happening through sort of crisis, and uh the this crisis became a permanent stance for many people in Ukraine. It's not only about me, but uh with the war you should you understand that every single moment is very important. Uh we stopped uh postponing uh things to do for tomorrow for better future, and there is a very common saying right now uh in Ukraine just leave your life now or today. So uh because because every moment is is is very uh very important and uh it can never be the same, it can never be another moment. And in our case, it's it's in practical terms, it's it's it means a lot. And this feeling of anxiety, it's in the ear, unfortunately. Uh when you hear uh serence uh every single day you should uh look at your phone. Our uh by the way, I just wanted to add that our smartphone it's like a uh very important, very, very important very important uh not only accessory, but it's it's it's something that can give you information that can cost you life, actually, because you should understand what kind of danger is it, uh you should manage your stress. And uh people from abroad, they of course they uh try to help Ukraine. I've met many Ukrainians who remember Americans, sorry, who were really very helpful and they support they support Ukraine, but from abroad it's very difficult to understand that environment in which we're living. So, and this environment, unfortunately, it also sharps you. It sharps you, it uh it makes you more resilient, uh uh less exposed to spending time for things which are not necessary. Be very careful with your mental energy, with your stress, uh, with the exhaustion. But I don't even want to compare myself with people and on not only uh men but also women who are uh on the front line. They face those challenges which we can never even imagine. No, for us, even like regular Ukrainians who are not on the front line.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Right, yeah. What does you know this ongoing uncertainty really do to you as a person?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Uh uncertainty uh taught me to understand that future is quite uh fragile and uh uh it um apparently uh you are exhausted, but it it's it has very I would call it supper in effect when you when you understand what what is important, what is not. You are planning but very cautious, cautiously, and uh for a very very short period of time. Uh you understand that nothing is uh determined. You should take into account so many many factors because when I was in Ukraine, you know, it was it was quite uh difficult to plan even your business. Uh and as a media manager I had to uh manage my team, uh and despite my like emotional uh stance, I couldn't uh um I couldn't spread that emotions, uh, emotions uh on my team. I should demonstrate discipline, I should encourage them to work properly, I should uh find uh new clients, I should like diversify our activity, and it's it's it's very difficult in this situation because my clients they also live in Ukraine and they experience the same problems, but we have this, you know, we call it common uh common experience, common uh uh historical experience that which we're uh passing together. That's why yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a very uh challenge, challenging task to arrange your professional life, your private life, your uh just existence, your survival in under these circumstances. So right.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Um the the displacement and everything, you know, affect your sense of identity?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Of course, no, of course no. Right now I live like be in between world worlds, uh between Ukraine and the US because when I uh uh woke up in the morning I have so many messages from my friends, I have notifications what happened in my home city, and unfortunately, uh the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv, my home city is suffering right now. Russians destroyed power plants, and as we we have different weather, different winter, not like here in Phoenix. We have almost 25 in Celsius. It was very, very cold winter for us, and heating, centralized heating is uh critically important for us for survival. So many people didn't have uh electricity and heating in their in their houses. So Russian, of course, I'm uh it it provokes some anxiety inside of me, and I can't detach myself from Ukrainian relatives just being in the United States. So one of my missions here, uh separate from my from my activity as a human Hubert Humphrey fellow, it's just to uh dismantle Russian narratives uh because sometimes I hear some questions about the Russian language, for example, about support of uh of Putin in Ukraine, which sounds for me just ridiculous. Um I don't want to go far into the details about the so-called Russian opposition and glorification of Navalny and Russian church and other issues, but I'm working on it quite systemically. And if I meet someone from from the United States who is really interested, I I'm always happy to have this conversation. I'm taking part in in some panel discussions uh here at the university to talk about it, to tell people what's really going on, because I'm not just a sofa expert, I'm I'm a person from the ground who has that practical experience, and it's very important for me to advocate my Ukrainian perspective here in the United States and to be helpful at least.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah. So what part of yourself feels um like really the hardest to hold on to during this period?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Um I think uh at the beginning it was uh a little bit difficult for me to understand that I'm in the safe environment because I had that very natural reactions uh which are natural for me right now. I'm I'm I'm almost uh uh okay with that, but uh I'm in cross-cultural environment, which is very, very new for me. Uh I feel like um I didn't actually realize how important uh it is and how many differences and this cult cross-cultural aspects have, because in in in Ukraine we have different nations, but uh not as diverse, of course, as as is here. So for me it's a very good experience. I learn a lot from uh other fellows. Uh I'm very grateful for their support and just uh having this uh chance to uh to thank them again for supporting Ukraine. Um yeah, actually, I I I think I was doing pretty pretty well in terms of adaptability because it's that's something which I realized it's it's it's a very good skill which I exercised here as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

So great. So living through the war as a woman, what's changed most for you and not just your daily life but in how you move through the world, make decisions or your thoughts about safety?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Uh I think uh I I think uh clarity clarity came it's not just it's it's not uh only because I'm a woman, but uh I I I I I would say clarity comes with uh this kind of crisis. So I've just realized uh that uh there are there there are people with those values which I share. There are people with different values, and we were friends before the invasion, but at some point we had different vision, not political. Uh thanks God I don't have friends who supported Russia, never, thanks God, but just uh that sometimes the attitude is different, the values, the vision of future is different. Yeah, it was it was a big challenge for many women uh in Ukraine, not only for me, because many many of Ukrainian men decided to go as as volunteers and not as volunteers to the Ukrainian army. And uh there is a big problem in the society how to live your life when your beloved one is somewhere on the front lines. So it's there is this um huge problem uh in the in in in our society when women should run households alone, like managing teams despite blackouts and uh outages, uh uh do some fundraising because I have some very good friends uh who are volunteering, I'm supporting them as much as I can, and it's like I would say that probably right now it's a part of our uh of our identity to volunteer. Uh and uh it seems to me that it it's maybe it's not um the time to to uh talk about it, but probably at some point uh we have this new type of women's leadership uh in this critical situation when when women are responsible for everything and uh they're not able to share the their responsibility with men for the same reason that I described before. So something like this.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah. So um where these experiences like fear, for example, or the responsibility um you mentioned, I mean, you or other women, how you doing the world that you feel were specifically, you know, to to you being a woman, or think that men around you will have, you know, had to think about in in different ways?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, I I'm I'm talking right now in general, the situation in our society. I I think um I don't know if men think different I well yeah, I think they may think differently because uh they they they they they can't leave the country, they can't travel because of the martial law, and it's their constitutional uh duty to defend the their motherland. So it's uh the in the men are in a in a little bit different situation, but uh it's maybe for many people it's it's from from outside it's not very understandable how it is like to manage all this all these situations, uh uh to go to the shelter, not to go to the shelter. Some friends of mine they have kids, and it's like a double responsibility. Responsibility for this woman, and when they are, for example, in the office and there is air rate alert, they should be uh sure that their kids uh are in the shelter and kids were in the kindergarten or at school, so there are l so many things to think about, and of course, all this all these problems, all this burden, it sharps our understanding how how this life should look like right now and what is important, what is not important. For me, for me, uh it's uh it's obviously that uh uh if I would ever before the war complain right now, I stop myself, even when I have this in my mind, even have like, oh, I don't like this, I don't like that. I tell I'm telling myself, Olga, oh my god, there are so many people on the front line, they face something that you can't even think about. So please stop complaining. It's a very destructive feeling. That's I think it's it's it's it's it's it's a very positive change that I can reflect on right now about myself.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

So when you look at still within like the women's perspective and you know, the the specific way of experiencing war as a woman or the women around you, um when you look at them during this time, whether they're moms, professionals like you, um, displaced women, caregivers, as you mentioned, what do you feel the world still does not fully see or understand about women's experiences of war?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Well, they probably the uh the world uh doesn't really uh realize and understand, and uh I'm not blaming just for your understanding. I'm not blaming because it's really difficult to understand when you are not part of this of this environment, of the of this problem, how to say it. I don't even want to find the appropriate word for that, but um I think it's more about that this safety is recalibrated somehow. There you have this intensified uh responsibility. Uh there is so-called invisible labor, like keeping household issues. Um many people don't understand why people in Ukraine are like have this emotional instability, and we have this trauma in the society, and we are going to have this PTSD for many many years. Unfortunately, it's a big problem, and uh we need so many psychologists and this kind of professionals to help us to overcome it even uh when the war hopefully uh uh ends uh soon. So it's the this traumatic period, it's it's overwhelming uh for all of us. So um honestly, uh to certain to a certain extent, um I I think it another an another positive thing is I just stopped thinking about expectations from the society because you know I I can say that our our society is very conservative, but it's not very liberal, and usually we're thinking about oh, what about this, what about that, if what uh what what if I do this, what if I um make these decisions, so and right now it it's simple, it's not it's simply not uh um important uh and we concentrate on things which are really matter.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Just so you know, she chose to rise is a global storytelling podcast and an annual book project by Global Rise and Soar in partnership with Engage Alone. But the podcast and the book comprise of stories about women who made one quiet, strong, dangerous, but courageous decision to speak with silence. Here's an excerpt of August chapter from the book. I learned very quickly that fear does not always arrive loudly, sometimes it enters quietly through unanswered phone calls, empty streets, and the way people stop making plans. I packed my life into what I could carry, not because I wanted to leave, but because tain meant becoming invisible to myself. Every choice felt heavy, every decision felt permanent, but even then I realized something unexpected. I was still choosing, and choosing, even in small ways, was a form of resistance, it's hit differently, you know, when you're trying to choose yourself amidst chaos. So, what did rising look like for you when survival was the priority?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Oh, actually, uh I realize that uh survival is my responsibility. I don't expect any assistance. Uh, I I shouldn't expect it. If I have it, it's fine. But everything which is going on around, it's only my responsibility. So, yeah, in all senses of this world. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

So tell me about the small choices you made that helped you um reclaim a sense of agency, sense of knowing you're still in charge and control.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Well, um, it was well the main choice uh for this time when I was in Ukraine during the war, it was to leave the country or not to leave. It was actually it was very at the very beginning of the invasion, because probably you've heard from the news that Russian troops they were uh very, very close to the capital of Ukraine, and probably you've heard what what they have done, all that crimes that um uh they uh they have done uh uh in the Kyiv region. So it was it was a choice to go somewhere uh to another country or to stay in Ukraine or to move to the western part of Ukraine. It was really very difficult to to to to uh have this clear vision because it everything is uh beyond your control and uh the city was almost empty. There was no almost no trans normal Uber transportation that we had before. It was uh difficult to get even to the railway station, and these evacuation trains were full of uh women with children, so you can imagine that that panic and that house that was the this uh first days of the invasion. So and and I decided to stay in in Ukraine. I I stayed for one month, then I went for another month to the western Ukraine uh to just just you know to normalize my uh nerves, my emotional stance, because I was really exhausted. I I couldn't sleep for a long time just because of this constant anxiety and this alertness, which is it is still in the air, but I just uh have that in mind that first days and that that I think that was the main uh main choice I I have made at that period of time to stay in my country.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Okay. So what surprised you about your own strength as a woman during this time?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Um actually I I I'm surprised that I can be uh more emotionally resilient than I thought I could be. Uh and I can adapt to that kind of stressful environment where I uh lived. Yeah. It's it's not only about me, it's for all of us, for all all all Ukrainians, unfortunately. We had calls from our friends from abroad. With they were listening to air aid alerts, for example. They were in panic, and we were saying, Oh guys, stop. We should check the situation, don't panic, everything is fine. So we're trying, you know, to to tell them that everything is fine on the phone, which was uh qu quite quite maybe ridiculous, but yeah, yeah, we we have this adaptability and this resilience right now.

unknown 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

So let's go to what what like the world often misses, you know, in the news reporting the story of war is you know mostly about politics, Russia invading Ukraine, and then so what is usually not told are the personal stories. What do people who watch the war from afar often me so misunderstood?

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah, they misunderstood uh that uh all these uh attacks, all these uh atrocities that Russia did uh in Ukraine. Uh unfortunately, the world the world doesn't understand that we are paying the highest price ever, lives of our people, lives of our soldiers, uh of civilians also, and uh the world uh doesn't understand what's going on on the occupied territories where there are Ukrainian citizens and the they are basically uh limited in uh even in basic uh uh state services without having the Russian passport, or so-called forced Rassification of our people. So the world unfortunately uh misses this. Uh sometimes people don't understand that emotional cost of uh permanent alert and uh unfortunately information war, uh which we are we are also not only we are fighting not on the on only on the front line but uh worldwide for the brains and and and uh hearts of uh of uh other people so uh the information war and Russian narratives also shape some perception here. So the world also misses it, in my opinion. And uh in this, you know, like this very frame, geopolitical frame, unfortunately, human reality disappears. And this information about casualties, for example, is just statistics right now, and uh the situation about Ukraine sometimes in this public discussion is reduced to headlines or statistics, which I'm trying to improve here with bringing my Ukrainian perspective and talking about it more and articulating these problems here.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah, talking about um bringing that perspective, what is the hardest part, you know, to explain to someone who has not lived yet?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Um it's sometimes sometimes when uh foreigners come to Ukraine, come to Kyiv, for example, this uh summer, which was a little bit less uh uh hard for us, uh I mean in terms of Russian attacks. People can see that we have uh during the daytime we have a normal life, uh, cafes and restaurants are open, people are trying to get some rest, uh get some fun, and uh yeah, and uh keep at Kyiv is a is a uh it's a beautiful city. And sometimes for them they have this kind of uh uh dissonance between that life continues, uh but it's permanently uh changed actually, because if if they spent life or spent nights or in in in Kyiv or a week, they may see that uh the situation is a little bit uh not the same like during the day. So um it's difficult for them to explain that we want, we still want to smile, we still want to live our life, we still want to enjoy, and for us, we we the the taste of this fan is very different right now, very different.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Right. So, I mean, beyond the news headlines, beyond the statistics, as you mentioned, um what do you wish the world pay more attention to, especially when it comes to how women are experiencing it?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Uh um I I I wish the world uh starts uh thinking more about collective responsibility of Russians. It it maybe it has nothing to do with women's perspective, it's my perspective as a Ukrainian, as a Ukrainian citizen. Because uh right now it has we has a uh we have a very um interesting situation which I see here in the United States, and Russians are trying to facilitate it, to uh spread this narrative that Putin is guilty, society is innocent. And in my understanding, uh there are no good Russians. I'm so sorry. There are no good Russians uh because those Russians who live abroad they can take the responsibility, they could protest, they can demonstrate, they live in a free world, they can uh arrange demonstrations uh around the globe, supporting Ukraine in front of the Russian embassies, and probably right now it could be a very, very uh important sign for the United States and for other allies of Ukraine, but they are not doing it. That's why I think that it's uh that's something that the world should definitely pay attention at.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Okay, apart from that geopolitical lens, is there any way like within the statistics related to women that you just wanna pick on?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Uh honestly, I don't have an answer to this question because we don't have this, you know. Um what's the gender dynamics uh within Ukraine? Uh do you mean in terms of casualties or every day? Casualties after the attack every day. Kids, kids, uh retired uh men, women unfortunately they're not selective. Right. The death is not selective.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Before before the the the war, what was it like in terms of um gender roles, in terms of political leadership, in terms of leadership in general, what was the gender dynamics look like?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah, actually, um I I would say there were lots of there were lots of women in business, and uh as I'm I'm I'm working mostly with law firms, with lawyers, there are lots of uh lots of uh very successful women lawyers, uh managing partners of the leading law firms in Ukraine and uh people with uh women with really uh successful careers. Uh our current prime minister is a woman. She was appointed, I think, almost six months ago. Uh she's a woman. Uh are lots of MPs, women, MPs. My good friend uh in in Ukraine, she's working with these gender uh issues, and yeah, there the role of women right now in the regions, in uh local local authorities, local governance institutions. Uh there are lots of women in charge of in charge of uh regional authorities right now because I told US men are not able to do that in in it to a certain extent. Yeah. Okay. So something like that. Sorry, I I I'm I'm not I don't really see uh problem. We don't have this kind of discrimination or something like that. We have a huge uh gap in pay between men and women, but probably it's not that story which we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

It's no, I mean it's good to bring the sides. I'm just asking like a general question specifying to women, and it can be whether they're suffering or it's equal or it's I see.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

I see just don't want to be as I'm not I'm not a big expert in these issues, to be honest, like from from from the from the from data, from being, you know, very, very having analytical resources on that. I don't want to like mislead uh but I don't I don't really see any uh kind of problem except of uh this payment payment cap and uh ageism during recruiting process.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah, that's that that's that's yeah. But demographically right now, of course, we have a huge problem because many women are abroad with their kids. And uh the war is almost four years, so it means that it would be very difficult to sorry, it would be really very difficult uh for them to come back because they they are integrated to this European societies, their uh children uh are attending schools in this country, and it's you know, these kind of logistical issues they are very difficult to manage just it advanced. So I think we we we may have a like a kind of a demographic crisis after the war, unfortunately. Fortunately, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

So like looking reflecting back and finding meaning, new meaning, um, how is this experience shaped your understanding of home, safety, and belonging?

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Um yeah, um, I just uh I I realize that home is not only my space, but it's my people, the language I choose to speak, it's my my responsibility for my space. Uh it's a commitment to be uh Ukrainian, even if I'm not in Ukraine, if I'm abroad, to bring Ukrainian perspective and to to do everything possible and possible to uh to talk about Ukraine, to explain the situation about Ukraine. Uh yeah, this is my home. Yeah, and geographically, of course, Ukraine is my home.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Definitely, yeah. So, um, how those events have really shaped the way you think and feel about resilience?

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah, resilience is uh for me it's right now it's almost equal to adaptation and self-reflection because you should uh transform this uh at one point maybe negative experience you have into something meaningful to make yourself stronger. So uh resilience is also about solving problems, continue working under pressure under these circumstances we have um and to be very practical and to the point, not just talking without actions.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Right, and uh you know, talking, not just talking without action means you still need to keep doing things, be hopeful that change will come, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because like before the war, we can talk a little uh a lot, then say, oh I'm going to do it tomorrow, postpone it, and then the day after tomorrow. Right now it's you you don't have time. You should be should be very, very uh concrete if you want to do something.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Right, yeah, and that kind of like give you a different definition for hope compared to how you see hope before.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Yeah. Hope right now it's completed. Project like safe arrivals, something uh good food right now, some something like that. Very, very, very, very accomplished things.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Okay. So looking forward, what are you becoming through this experience? Who is Olga becoming?

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Um right now I can't say that I don't plan at all. It would be not true. I would say that I plan very very carefully. I waste less time on things which are not important. Um I focus on something which is important right now without postponing it. Um and I try to exercise like practical integration of this experience and the new life here, which is of course it's different, but I think that adaptability and resilience actually uh helped me, assisted me a lot being here in the United States. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

So what does healing look like for you, even if I mean it's still ongoing?

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Um yeah, you're right, it's still ongoing. It's uh it's just living, living and working with what what's going on. Just continue living.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

What would you tell another woman living through a crisis right now?

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Um I would I I I I would suggest them uh that advice that I would probably give to myself do what is necessary, uh protect mental energy, it's very important. Uh don't spread it on things which are not important, and uh keep making decisions even in this uh under this circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Olga, your story isn't only about Ukraine, it's about displacement, about uncertainty, and about how quickly normal can disappear. And yet, it's also about agency, the quiet, powerful act of continuing to choose yourself. August's story reminds us that rising doesn't always look triumphant. Sometimes it looks like staying present, sometimes it looks like grief, sometimes it looks like choosing to remember who you are. If this episode moved you, I invite you to sit with it, to learn more, to listen deeply. You can read Olga's full story in She Chose to Rise wherever you can get your book from, or you can come back and listen to this episode. You can share it with someone who needs it, and you can reflect on what rising means in your own life right now. I am Maria Tzu, and this is She Choose to Rise, a global rising swear production and partnership with Engage Saloon. Until next time, rise.